Former governor of Jigawa State and chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Sule Lamido, has appealed to the opposition elements, including those currently exiting the All Progressives Congress (APC), to come back home to the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), where together, they would build a greater Nigeria for the good of all Nigerians.
He also urged President Tinubu to be careful with the Rivers political crisis.
He commented on the recently published account of June 12 by General Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida, saying his own biography, billed to be out soon, would shed light on his perceptive on that episode of Nigeria political history.
He shared his thoughts also on the lopsided nature of appointments under the Tinubu administration, the Senators Natasha-Akpabio debacle and the second coming of President Donald Trump, among others.
Sir, let’s start with a mid-term assessment of the President Bola Tinubu’s administration.
Every time you guys from the press ask me questions about my assessment of the administration, I don’t know whether you are asking for a fair, honest assessment from me? Or you are just asking to hear something new. I have been saying it over and over again. I don’t have expectation of anything positive coming out of the government. We were in government years ago and we (PDP) were flushed out because of what was seen as “our failure”. Alright! In 2014, 2015, you formed APC and the PDP were blackmailed out of power. And they have been there for the past 10 years or so now. Buhari was there for eight years, Tinubu has been there for two years…and I, Sule Lamido, have no expectation of anything positive coming out of this APC government. And even if I should have an opinion, the people will still say that I am being unfair because I am in the opposition. To me in all honesty, this government is not a creation of the Nigerian interests, it is a creation of the interests of a few selfish people. And this is most unfortunate. I’m just watching and honestly, I don’t believe that anything good would come out of this government.
Well, from where you are watching, do you have anything to say regarding how Nigerians are feeling at the moment under the present government in charge?
If you are asking me about this government, I mean about their performance in terms of their capacity and the quality of their service delivery to Nigerians, well, I think you should ask Nigerians themselves to tell you about their experiences. Ask Nigerians, not me! Honestly, they are in the best position to provide answers to your questions. They were the ones, who on their own volition, rightly or wrongly, voted out the PDP years ago and voted in this party and this government. Ask them if they are happy now? Ask them if they are happy with the APC government? And if they are not, then I am sure that they know how to find their way out. Nigerians should speak about the performance of this government. I feel that Nigerians are thoroughly well aware of what is happening now, they are very familiar with the situation on ground and they can say whether they are happy or not. And they can also very vividly compare and contrast between the PDP government which they voted out years ago and the APC government which they voted for. It is for them to determine and say that we feel better off under the PDP or we are better off under the APC.
You talked about the PDP in glowing terms. But don’t you think that the PDP is losing out gradually as a major political factor in the politics of Nigeria given its numerous unending crises?
What is your surname? Has the surname failed you? It is the name of your own family, your background, your history and everything that defines you as a person. Are you going to change it? Not likely? That is the same way it is with me. When you say that I talked so glowingly about the PDP, that I am very passionate about it, what else do you expect me to do? Am I to renounce the name of my party? How? I have been saying it before now. The party called PDP honoured me and dignified me. It gave me an opportunity to go and serve Nigerians at different levels. It has created so many Nigerians and invented so many Nigerians. So for you to come now and ask me to renounce it, you are like asking me to crawl out of my own skin, go elsewhere in flesh and blood to be conferred with another person’s skin. That is not fair. In any case, it is unNigerian, it is unAfrican and it is not part of our culture to deny your history or to renounce your past simply because of some inconveniences.
Sir, let’s compare the PDP of the past and the PDP today. How do you see both in the face of the party’s challenges?
PDP is one of the institutions of the society. Therefore, like all other institutions, PDP is not perfect. You should expect that a party as big as the PDP to have challenges. This is normal, and PDPs problems are normal party problems. It is a natural thing. It is a natural phenomenon. So also are other political parties in Nigeria. They too have their own problems. So, why are you focusing on the PDP? Even those who labelled PDP as “that and that” before jumping into the APC, are they not changing their minds about the same APC today? One of the leading opponents of the PDP when they were forming APC is migrating again! That goes a long way to tell you that none of the parties is without its own challenges and inconveniences. In the APC today, many of them are changing their minds about the party because this was a party that was based on falsehoods, based on ephemeral interests and personal interests.
PDP, at the moment, is challenged. There is the pending election of new NEC leadership. A couple of cases are in court and so many other concerns. What are the solutions to these issues?
The solution is very simple. I think that those who were made, politically, by the PDP, those who PDP dignified and those who PDP made what they are today in Nigeria should simply begin to return home. Those, who PDP dignified, they should have a rethink and come back to the party as a family, and then we take it up from there. This is because these people know that they are from PDP. Wherever they are today, they are from the PDP and PDP is still a part of them. They should come back home. PDP is their home.
I don’t get you sir. The home you are talking about is unsettled, PDP has divides and quarrels. How do you expect them to feel at home in this kind of abode?
You see part of the problem we are dealing with is because some of those who mattered had left the party; those who contributed to the best of the party had left the party. Therefore, if you have now left the party for “the rookies”, what do you expect? If some of the parents of the party had left the party, it is only natural those who are in charge now are likely to make mistakes because they do not understand what was the PDP in 1998. And, therefore, some of these challenges we are facing are due to the immaturity of those causing the problems.
Two days ago, former Governor Nasir el-Rufai renounced the APC and committed himself to the SDP. Let’s have your thought on his exit from APC, giving the passion he once committed to the party?
I don’t really want to talk about an individual. That will not be fine. But having said that, let me say that today’s Nigeria is going through a period, whereby anger, frustration and unmet expectations and unfulfilled promises are determinants of our direction. And, therefore, people are panicking in their actions and political decisions. But honestly, I don’t think that we need anything like a panic measures to do anything. In the end, many people are frustrated, people are angry and they are suffering from the unmet expectations under the APC government of Nigeria. So understandably, people are very, very panicky. Because of this, they sadly are willing to grab at anything. But then in the political leadership of the country, honestly panic is not the solution and should not be the solution. What is needed is a more sane environment, a more sane disposition, where people will be able to reflect about the country and see what is there for Nigeria first. Simply moving and defecting for personal reasons is not… Look, the PDP was there in 1999 and before. Who were those who destroyed the PDP? Now having brought in and sold the APC to Nigerians, are we better off as Nigerians? Under Tinubu, are we better off than we were in 1999? Now, let them come back home to where they rightly belong, where they are respected, where they are appreciated and where they are wanted and where they are loved. You see, they carry the notion of shame on their heads and the pride is what is making them wander about for an abode elsewhere. But are they better off wandering about when they should simply have come back home to a warm reception of PDP? They were in the PDP before they left for the APC and having got to the APC, why are they having a change of mind? To go to where again? Is their target political arrangement better off than the APC that they left? That is why I am saying that the move by those defecting is simply a panicky measure that is borne out of frustration and out of anger. Come back home to the PDP! If all those politicians, who are presently in APC, but were created by PDP should come back home, we will be where we were in 1998 as a solid Nigeria party for the Nigerian people, where we will all work for Nigeria!
Don’t you think that PDP should try to repair its house and resolve its crises to make it attractive to those defecting politicians? That is the reason PDP is not the destination for defectors.
You see, there is nothing like APC as a political party. What you have there is Tinubu, the emperor hiring people from other political parties for his own interests. That is all. So, when you talk about the troubles in PDP, the truth is that those who are now fighting PDP or are causing trouble in the PDP are working for Tinubu.Tinubu knows what he wants. He is willing to either pay or give the required support or give the incentive for you to work for him irrespective of which political party you belong to. The people working for him are either willingly or unwillingly being used by Tinubu to weaken the other political parties. It doesn’t matter from where you are coming from as long as he, Tinubu, will use you to get to his selfish goals. And this is a factor in all of these disputes that are raging in all other opposing political parties, in all the parties that are opposing the APC.
There is the expectation that the opposition elements – the PDP, the Labour Party and the smaller parties like NNPP – should come together to oppose the APC in the next elections. How do you see this expectation?
Honestly, it is not to come together to oppose the APC as you put it, but to come together to save Nigeria. Those who are in these other political parties were all in the PDP and those who are in the APC government are also all in PDP. Isn’t it? And simply, let them all come back and when they come back to the PDP which they are familiar with, which is part of their own history, which is part of their own image and legacy, Nigeria will be well again and Nigerians will be able to smile at the quality of their leadership.
Up till date, the appointments made by the Tinubu administration have been slanted in favour of the Yoruba people at the expense of the rest of Nigerians…
Oh yes! This is too obvious and embarrassing too! I have seen the recent list of appointments and postings. It shouldn’t be so! This is certainly one of the many low points of the Tinubu administration. Virtually, the entire political economy of this country is in the hands of the Yoruba people. Even his own Yoruba people are worried and concerned. They are saying look, “You are making things more difficult for us by being unduely unfair to other parts of the federation”. They are saying these things to him. But you see the truth is that you are dealing with somebody who is terribly insensitive and cares less. He does not care about what other people feels. He lacks the way to apply wisdom and political sagacity to manage our affairs. He does not also give a damn about our concerns because by his nature, he is simply a very provincial person. You see the truth is that he is a very provincial person. He only knows his own Lagos. If you ask him about Taraba, Kogi or Dutse, my state capital, you will be surprised that he does not know anything about these states or their capital. I mean it. President Tinubu is a very provincial person. He only knows Lagos and unfortunately, he thinks that Lagos is the entire Nigeria, the entire world. And even when you come to Lagos, this, his nepotism, is not about the entire Yoruba people. It is about those who he knows personally, it about his personal friends and relatives. It is about those in his own circle and not about the Yoruba as a whole or the people of Lagos State, get that clear. He lacks the political knowledge of what is called Nigeria, of Nigeria as a federation and of the cultures in Nigeria; he lacks the knowledge of the norms of the people. In the end it is me and you that are looking at distribution as being too much or as being too abnormal. But for him, it is a normal thing. I doubt if he had realized that it is an abnormal conduct of governance to favour one part against the other parts of the federation.
But what happens to the Vice President – who was specifically picked from the North – to ensure that this sort of undue distribution of opportunities is avoided? Why is he silent?
But then, does he have the will to ask for that is right…, does he have the political will and courage to walk up to his boss and say, “Sir, these things could be done differently?” I don’t think so.
One of the topical issues is the suspension of Senator Natasha over her alleged conduct in the Senate. From your background as a legislator, what would you say about the drama? About the failure of the Senate to respect an injunctive order?
Well, let me state categorically that all the institutions of governance and indeed all of us as Nigerians are supposed to obey the orders of the court. That is the hallmark of democracy, which is respect for the rule of law irrespective of whom you are or which institution you represent. That way nobody is above the law. Having said that, let me add that I do not have all the information regarding the said injunction obtained by Senator Natasha against the Senate. So, I will want to stop here. But again, this your question has thrown up another issue that is germane to the Nigeria public. You see, the three arms of government are supposed to serve as checks against one another. In practice, the courts check the executive. It is the judiciary that is also called upon to check the legislature. But when there is judicial misconduct, nobody from the other arms of government checks the judiciary. No one checks the court. Apart from the Judiciary Service Commission (JSC), which as you know is part of the judiciary, nobody can check or correct the judiciary when it elects to be reckless. And there are times when the judgment that is granted by our courts is certainly far below what is expected of them. In essence, I am of the opinion that the same way by which the other arms of government can be checked by the judiciary, there has to be a body or institution outside the judiciary, which is institutionalized to call them to order where and when the need arises.
Sir, you were part of the June 12, 1993 era. What is your view about the account of June 12 by former President Ibrahim Babangida in his recently launched book?
I had an interview with Arise Television and they asked me the same question. But I politely declined. I said I will not comment on the issue or be part of the debate. This is simply because I am also writing my own biography. It is already out for printing and the unveiling is fixed for May 13. The Chairman of the occasion will be General Abdulsalami Abubakar and General Olusegun Obasanjo wrote the forward of the book, will be special guest of honour. I have been on that book for about six or seven years. So, my views and opinion and understanding about June 12 have been well captured in my biography. Therefore, you should wait for that book.
But what about your reaction to how Nigerians have responded to the claims made by IBB in his account of that historical episode? I am not talking about your own history of June 12, but about how Nigerians reacted to IBB’s account of June 12?
I will make no comment on that. The book has been launched and Nigerians are commenting either way. It is their right. Either way, it is their right. Some are celebrating and some are not. It is their right to react differently. I mean by the time you write a biography, by the time the book is out, people have the right to comment on it, to either confirm or to debunk. This is only natural for them. It is his own opinion.
With the latest Supreme Court judgment, how do you see the politics of the Rivers State playing out? Don’t forget the party and the political characters are part of the rich PDP history that you have been talking about?
I learnt that there was a meeting between Wike, Fabura and the President in Abuja recently. That is a good one. Peace in Rivers State is very important and the President has moral authority to maintain peace, not only in Rivers State, but also in Nigeria. He can see the precipitations and consequences of insecurity in Rivers State on the economy and the polity of the Nigeria State. So, it is for him to address the situation in more sober way than being partisan about it.
As a former Foreign Affairs Minister, what is your view on President Trump second coming? What are the implications of his policies on Nigeria and Africa in general?
Any sovereign country, any nation has the right to pick its own leadership. Alright, so the Americans have made their own choice in Trump. Naturally, there will be a reaction based on the way they perceive him. But it is up to any country to see how they can work with him. If you think that Trump represents a global threat, then it is up to that country or the countries to find the way of engaging him. If you think he is going to serve your own interest, the better for you. So the issue of an election in any other country, in a sovereign country is their right. Now, it is up to the other countries to think of the way to engage the other country. Simple.
Are you not worried that some of his policies have negative implications on others, especially, the Third World countries?
Look, the policies you are talking about are not opposed to by the American people. That is what they want. Policies on trade, on immigration, on foreigners, these are their main concerns. Why should other countries begin to worry about the American rights to choose their own leader based on their own self-interests. It is very clear that Trump is very, very hostile to Islam, it is very clear that Trump is hostile to immigrants, he is also very combative on trade, world trade and others, he is also very imperial to the extent that he wants to annex other countries – he wants to annex Canada, he wants to take over Panama. So that is what the American people want. That is what they voted for. Now, it is up to the world to come around and say, “no, you cannot do that”… but obviously he is simply acting based on the interests of America. Although there may be a few opponents, the majority of them, who are white are okay with these policies.
